March 13, 2003
The Ellettsville, Indiana, Town Council met in special session at 6:30 PM, Thursday, March 13, 2003 at the Town Hall. David Sorokoty called the meeting to order. David Sorokoty, President; David Drake, Vice-President, Geraldine McIntyre, Ray Freetage and Lisa Combs-Creech were in attendance. Sandra Hash, Clerk-Treasurer was also present.
Supervisors Present: Jim Davis, Jim Ragle, Jeff Farmer and Ron McGlocklin.
Rick Coppock
gave a report on the old elementary school property. After meeting with the YMCA Mike Farmer found they do not
initiate projects themselves. They
don’t have seed money for projects, but they look for the communities to
provide that money. The availability
of the land would make the project more feasible and move along quicker, but
the YMCA is not in a position to go out and purchase the property. Basically, if a community expresses
interest, they would need to form a committee to formalize a request to the
YMCA to build a facility here.
The school has
an asbestos plan, so a cost estimate to remove it was obtained. The cost was around $50,000 to $55,000. There are some unknowns, however, because
the school only looks at what you come in contact with or see, not anything
that is behind walls or inside panels.
The cost to tear the building down and haul it off to the landfill was
also looked at. The trucking and
landfill fees would be around $150,000 to haul away the rubble. Some of that cost could be offset if you had
a place to dump the concrete and masonry from the building. So, it is possible to get that figure down
quite a bit. They also looked at some
trucking costs because single-axle trucks the Town has would take forever when
you have that much material. The
excavator and loader would just be waiting to load most of the day. So, you could possibly get the price down to
around $60,000 if you had an approved spot to dump some of the concrete fill
material. You would still have some
costs because of other items, such as roofing materials. Ray asked if you could put the concrete fill
in an abandoned quarry. Rick responded
that anyplace you were not planning to build on could be used to place fill and
let it settle out.
Some money
could be saved if salvage companies would come in and take all of the interior items
such as doors, toilets etc. You
probably wouldn’t see much, if any money, but it would speed the process up by
not having to haul off those particular items.
David Sorokoty
asked about the labor involved and how long it would take to tear it down. Rick said that with all the daily functions
of the Town, it would have to be when there was down time. It would probably be
an extended period of time, maybe six months, as the workload would allow.
David gave the
council information about the house on the northeast corner of Main Street and
Matthews Drive and the house next door to it that are both for sale. The total for the two together is
$205,000. Sandra explained that it was
four city lots.
David stated
that there is a sinkhole on the property on the west side of town that they are
looking at for the police station, otherwise known as the old water tower
site. He asked Rick about building on
it. Rick said the Town doesn’t have any
ordinances about building on or around a sinkhole. The county has an ordinance that recommends that you not build
within 25-feet from the rim. Some
technical firms could do a study to see what you could do to build on it, but
anything you build on a sinkhole is subject to have problems if it is still
active. There could be settlement and
it could create problems with your building.
David asked what actually causes a sinkhole, is it from rock formations
underneath that allows land and water to go through. Rick said a lot of them are active and are constantly draining
and pulling inward, which is where the cone shape comes from. He suggested getting someone more qualified
than him to discuss the possibility of building anywhere close to the sinkhole.
David Drake
stated the sinkhole is at the front of the property where you would more than
likely have to build a driveway around it and not build directly on it. Sandra
added Indiana
University has a Geological Survey Department that has documentation on
sinkholes; we might be able to get a report for the area. David Sorokoty said that he is apprehensive
to build on a piece of property like that without getting a thorough report,
and even with a thorough report, it would still be kind of scary. He doesn’t want the police to move from a
flood area to a sinkhole.
David Drake
said they are right back to where they left off, referring to the old
school. At a very bare minimum, it is
not likely to happen without at least $110,000 to demolish the building and it
also requires large amounts of the town’s labor force, during which time they
could be doing other things. Lisa
Combs-Creech said consideration should to be given that the school corporation
wants at least $100,000 to even purchase it.
David Sorokoty said it is back down to two properties, the Shook house
and the west side.
David Sorokoty
received a phone call from Dexter Luck, who said Bloomington is not allowing
hook-ons to their sewer system to slow the growth in Bloomington. Dexter wanted to know why Ellettsville
doesn’t take the lead and start allowing hook-ons outside the area and signing
inter-local agreements with Monroe County Regional. Bloomington is making millions of dollars off of their sewer
system and they have a deadline to buy equipment. If Bloomington wants to stop it’s a good cause for Ellettsville
to start taking over the northwest section of the county. David Sorokoty talked to Mike Farmer about
it, and they already do that. If they
want our sewer, they pay for the lines to go where needed. Dexter was referring to being more public
about it. Mike said you would probably
have to build more plants, but there is Federal money for it, and the more
hook-ons you have, the more money you get for it.
Jeff Farmer
said it was a little more complicated than that. If our sewer lines can be extended, we are more than willing to
do it at the developer’s expense. If it
is feasible, it can happen, referring to the Ratliff Road project. David Drake said if our goal is to encourage
the growth in the Ellettsville area, we don’t want to provide sewer 10 miles
away, we want them to come to where the sewer is available. Jeff said you can’t take ratepayers money
and put lines where there is just barren land and hope people come along and
hook-on. Lisa
Combs-Creech questioned if we weren’t doing it more wisely now by doing it on
demand, not making it public and creating a problem with competition between
Bloomington, Monroe County and Ellettsville.
Rick Coppock said this stems from an article in the paper concerning new
sewer extensions outside the city’s urban boundaries. In the past, developments
would go to the Monroe County Plan Commission for approval, including
sewers. Now, before the County can give
any approval to new developments, they have to get Bloomington’s approval first
to extend the sewer lines. The Mayor
has the final veto. This would give the
Mayor control on where the growth was going to be. When Ellettsville built the wastewater treatment plant, a 12-inch
line was installed that sits to the northeast of the plant. This provides a line for future connections
where people could tie on and flow to the plant. No one is tied on to it now, but it is out there. We took over the school lift station a few
years ago and have easements all across the school so we could get development
from the West. We have planned for
future growth on the West side. We also
have the same plan for our water line, extending it where some development is
most likely going to occur. There is
room for growth out by the new elementary school. It would require a regional lift station that can pick up a lot
of flow and pump it back to town. This
is the most economical way to do sewer extensions. It is less expensive to put in a force main or pressure line than
it is to put in a bunch of gravity sewers.
Jeff
Farmer stated Bloomington wants to use their sewer utility to control growth.
Here in Ellettsville we are trying to promote growth.
Monroe
County has two wastewater treatment plants, one in Stinesville and one on the
South side by the Pointe at Lake Monroe.
They control all the sewer customers
outside
of Bloomington and Ellettsville.
Bloomington has two plants. We
have room for growth at the Ellettsville Plant; we can add another oxidation
tank.
Rick added that
all parties have worked well together.
In the past Eastern Richland Sewer Corporation approached Bloomington
about accepting their sewer and Bloomington turned them down because they have
a contract with Ellettsville.
David Sorokoty
wanted everyone to hear the report that Rick had on the school. Without taking votes, they are right back to
where they were. They are just looking
at a couple properties. The council
needs to make a direction on choosing which property to work off of, if it will
be more economical to combine buildings on one property or build on two
different sites. We will get a copy of
the study done on the sinkholes.
Ron McGlocklin
asked if anyone checked with Don Kinser on the property at the corner of State
Road 46 and Ridge Springs Lane. David
didn’t think so. Geraldine said he
wanted quite a bit for it, and there was 4.7 acres or something like that. David said that they would check into it.
The council
discussed several pieces of property that could be possibilities for a police
station. David said the whole idea was
to cover Ellettsville with good emergency service response time and that would
not happen putting them all in one location on the east side of town. So, we need to look from the middle of town
westward for the police station. Response
time will be quicker if we spread the emergency services out. David Drake said he thinks that it should be
important where a fire station is located for response time, but not for the
police station. The idea is they aren’t
necessarily at the police station all the time like the fire station. David Sorokoty asked if the council wanted
the police department and the fire department to be together. Lisa Combs-Creech said that it would be more
economical to put the departments together and have one building instead of
three. Jim Davis said that the property
for the fire station is pretty well in the center of the township in which they
serve.
David Sorokoty
asked Ron what his opinion was. Ron
agreed that there are several avenues to look into. He doesn’t want to see the council throw good money to bad,
knowing that there will be another flood.
It won’t hurt anything to check on all of these different
properties. David Drake said he hasn’t
been crazy about the west side location for various reasons, but before the
council spends $200,000 to buy property somewhere, all possibilities need to be
exhausted that the Town already owns.
Ron agreed.
David Drake
said that the old water tower site’s north end is adjacent to Smithville
Telephone. An agreement with them for an access out the back may be a
possibility. David Sorokoty, Ray
Freetage, Ron McGlocklin and Rick Coppock decided to meet at the property on
Saturday at 11:00 am. David asked the
other council members and Sandra to check on the other possible properties that
are available and report back.
David Sorokoty
asked Sandra if all council members had reported back on having a council
meeting at the new Ivy Tech location.
Geraldine said that she could meet there as long as there is no
requirement that the council has to meet at Town Hall. Sandra said that she had spoken to one of
Monroe County’s attorneys and he said there is not any stipulation for the
council to meet only at Town Hall, and also said that our attorney could give
us more information if needed.
Darlyne Sowder
asked when they were going to decide about the financial plan. It was reviewed that the price for H.J.
Umbaugh was $7,500 to $10,000 with $10,000 being the most. The price for Mr.
Guerrettaz was $10,000 to $15,000, and probably closer to $15,000. Both gave good presentations. Sandra said that Mr. Guerrettaz had more
levels of information and that may be why his price was higher. Lisa Combs-Creech asked what funds the cost
would come from. Sandra explained that
Mr. Guerrettaz said that the price could be split between the Water, Sewer and
General Funds. Jeff Farmer wanted
clarification that the Utilities were going to have to pay
for 2/3 of a
study for the fire and police station.
David Sorokoty explained that it was for a comprehensive financial plan
for the town. Jeff said that before
they vote, he
wanted to know
how the plan was going to be paid for.
David asked which firm the council wanted to go with. Geraldine thinks they should go with Umbaugh
because they know what our bond issues are in town and it would be wise to go
with them instead of bringing someone new in, and also because their price was
cheaper. She made this her motion. Lisa Combs-Creech seconded. David Drake said before we decide, we need
to figure out how we’re going to pay for it.
Sandra said
that she was under the understanding that the plan would cover the water and
sewer utility, also, and it would outline to what extent the civil side can
utilize any monies from water and sewer.
Jeff asked how the plan would benefit the Utilities. David Sorokoty said that it was a way to
make the town sound 20 years from now and wanted to know if Utilities wanted to
be a part of that. Jeff thinks they are
being a part of that now, but it seems like increasingly that we keep dipping
more and more into the utilities budget.
He is speaking not only for himself but for the rate payers, which is
the job they were hired to do: protect
the rate payers of the Town of Ellettsville.
Sandra said that the financial plan was going to explain a lot. It is ultimately the council’s
decision. The structure is for all
three units to work together as one for the benefit of all the constituents: the ratepayers and the taxpayers. Jeff said they are two different things. The tax base and ratepayer driven and not to
confuse the two. Rick suggested that
Umbaugh break down how it should be distributed between the different
departments. Sandra agreed. Ray Freetage said that no matter who makes
the suggestion, it is still up to the council to say how it will be paid
for. It doesn’t make any difference
what Umbaugh says, it doesn’t make any difference what the other guy says, it
doesn’t make any difference what the supervisors say. When push comes to shove, it is the council who will take the
heat for the decision. In that sense,
the council will make the final decision but are willing to listen to others
that want to suggest. Ray amended the
motion to utilize the Umbaugh firm for the financial plan for the town on the
condition that the price quoted from $7,500 to $10,000, with $10,000 being the
cap. Lisa Combs-Creech seconded. David Drake asked where in the budget there
is $10,000 to take to pay for the study if that is what has to be done. Sandra explained that the only place is
Miscellaneous Professional. Lisa
Combs-Creech asked if we could take it out of the Government Center Fund. Sandra said that was a good possibility. Lisa said she would feel comfortable doing
that. David Drake asked if all of the
appropriation for the Administrative Assistant had been spent. Sandra said only what was spent on paying
her in January. Motion carried.
David Sorokoty
said that Karla did a newspaper article about the old abandoned car wash and
Jeana Kapczynski called Sandra and said that the owner wanted help from the
town to tear down the building. Rick
Coppock said to beware of using town’s crews to tear a public building
down. The public health nuisance and
the possibility of condemning the property were both discussed.
Adjournment
Geraldine
made a motion to adjourn. Lisa
Combs-Creech seconded. The meeting
adjourned at 7:40 P.M.
_____________________________ __________________________
David Sorokoty, President David Drake, Vice President
_____________________________ __________________________
Lisa Creech-Combs Ray Freetage
_____________________________ __________________________
Geraldine
McIntyre Sandra
C. Hash, Clerk-Treasurer