July 18, 2006

 

 

 

The Ellettsville, Indiana, Town Council met in a Special session on Tuesday, July 18, 2006, at the Fire Department Training and Conference Room at 7:00 p.m.

 

 Members present were Patrick Stoffers, President; William Evans, Vice President; Lisa Creech and Phillip Rogers. Sandra Hash, Clerk Treasurer was also present. 

 

Patrick Stoffers opened the meeting of the Meadowlands Gate Debate and turned it over to Lisa Creech.

 

Lisa Creech explained the purpose of this meeting was not to discuss a gate but to talk about the entire speeding issue.  There were people from Kelli Heights or Paddington Park who received speeding tickets and multiple drivers in the same household.  An emergency access gate would be going to an extreme measure to handle the speeding issue.  She reviewed some of the solutions brought to the Town Council:

  • Speed bumps
  • Changing roads to include “S” curves
  • Increased enforcements
  • Install gate

 

Frank Nierzwicki read section 153.074 from the Ellettsville Town Code: (D) Connectivity (1) Except for subdivisions of ten lots or less, a connecting through street to channel traffic easily from one subdivision to another is required. (C) Cul-de-sacs (1) except for streets approved for future extension into adjacent developable territory, the closed end of a dead-end street shall be provided with a cul-de-sac for vehicle turnaround.  (E) Access (1) Subdivisions over ten lots must provide two access ways in and out of the subdivision for emergency vehicles. 

 

Lisa went on to say this evening’s meeting will try to find a solution with the speeding for whole Town of Ellettsville. Lisa read letters from people who could not attend the meeting. She then opened the floor for public comment and asked it remain civil and unthreatening. 

 

Brian Bergfeld, resident of Kelli Heights does not want a gate installed because it would force them to take a significant detour adding several minutes to daily commutes.

 

Tim Hines, Ellettsville resident does not want a gate.  There are speeders in all neighborhoods!  A gate will slow emergency vehicles.  If this neighborhood becomes “gated”, how many neighborhoods will want to follow? 

 

Sam Mason, Monroe County resident is against the gate.  He sees more speeders on SR 46; will we gate SR 46 as well?

 

Jason Mundy, resident Robin Drive does not want a gate to cut off Kelli Heights from Lake View Drive.  He suggested installing speed bumps, increase Police patrol or change the road layout from an “8” to an “S”.

 

Angela Monts, lives on the inside of the 90 degree curve on Meadowlands Drive.  Speeding cars drive up on her sidewalk and driveway creating numerous incidents that were very close calls with her children, pets or other family members.  She does not know if a gate is the answer but something has to be done.  She suggested a stop sign or speed bumps.

 

Mike Stockmann, resident in Meadowlands listed many incidents of speeding and reckless driving during the last 13 years.  He is for a gated neighborhood but knows this would be an inconvenience for all neighbors involved.  He suggested speed bumps, stop signs or a round about.  For the children’s sake if nothing is done; who will be accountable when something happens?

 

Lisa Creech reiterated multiple drivers in the same household have received tickets.  This is public information.  Police enforcement has been increased in the Meadowlands.  She opened the floor for public comment:

 

Allen Horton, resident Kelli Heights sympathizes with the Meadowlands residents. Lakeview Drive speed limit goes from 30 mph to 20 mph.  Drivers continue to speed and run at least two stop signs.  He feels the solution is increased speed patrol handing out tickets fining the offenders and not just warnings tickets.

 

Butch Cain, Paddington Park resident has problems with speeders close to his home but has never said anything.  He does not think Ellettsville has the money for extra patrol.  His concern would be the emergency vehicles having access to his neighborhood.

 

Art Hayes, resident 710 Paddington Way clarified the petition that was sent around should have stated the gate would be in Paddington Park and not Kelli Heights.  The gate would be illegal by Indiana Code.  He read the Indiana Code that suggests 30 mph with parking on the streets.  He does not see why the whole Town has to be in a School Zone speed limit.  He also pointed out the sidewalks in the Meadowlands are in violation of code.  There should be 3 feet of grass between the curb and sidewalk for safety zone and water meters.  When he lived at 646 Robin the first thing he did was put in a back fence to prevent his children from playing in the front yard until they were old enough to be responsible.  It was impossible for him and his wife to continually watch their children in the front yard.  He feels the Town has already accepted the streets and they do not meet the criteria to have a gate installed. 

 

Melissa Larimer, resident Paddington Park agrees there is a speeding problem.  The mothers in Paddington Park have not complained because they would stand in the street to slow the cars down.  What is the reality of the increased Police patrol?  What are the true options?  What does the Town have money to do?  Lisa Creech answered the Town has Reserves Officers to patrol this area but currently the problem is the fuel prices.  Lisa wants to know if the speeding is only in the Meadowlands or are they speeding in other subdivisions.  Ms. Larimer remarked “as neighborhoods cycle you will get different problems with the cycles and Meadowlands is having problems”.   She also has to go into Bloomington several times a week and driving out to McNeely is an extra mile each trip which adds up. 

 

Frank Nierzwicki stated the streets in the Meadowlands are 24 feet wide.  There is an illusion of the street being wider because of the sidewalks being next to the street and the street being straight. 

 

Tammi Nelson, resident Meadowlands Drive is not committed to a gate but she is concerned about the speed on her street.  She purchased her home because there were sidewalks and she likes to take her child for walks.  She heard the Town did not want to put in speed bumps due to the snow plows but feels her child’s safety should be more of a concern.  Lisa clarified the concern with the speed bumps are someone hitting one and going airborne.   Ms. Nelson suggested stop signs at every intersection, gate off or install speed bumps on the straight-aways. 

 

Keesha Sears, resident Diana Drive opposes the gate because Kelli Heights has a steep street which is hard to drive on when it snows.  Also the emergency vehicles were able to get to her home quickly through the Meadowlands when her son was having a seizure.  She thinks speed bumps would be a good option.

 

Randall Browning, resident 601 Diana Drive enjoys walking through the Meadowlands Subdivision at night.  Something needs to be done.  He suggested speed dips.  He would support stop signs at both end of Wildflower. 

 

Jerry S. Langley, resident of Kelli Heights agrees something needs to be done about the speeding but a gate is not going to stop it.  He suggested stop signs and speed bumps. 

 

Bob Double, resident Robin Drive in Kelli Heights thanked the Council for taking public input on this issue.  He asked about the petitions that have been circulated.  Lisa announced the Council has a petition from the Meadowlands wanting a gate and a petition from Kelli Heights/Paddington Park opposing the gate.  Mr. Double asked if there is a specific time frame on the action to be taken on the speeding.  Lisa explained the information and suggestions collected in this meeting will be taken to the Council.  She went on to explain the different people who would be involved in the decision making from the budget for the fuel to the price of speed bumps.  Lisa would like a representative from each neighborhood to poll their neighbors for the key places to install speed bumps or signs.  Patrick said there are some things that do not need to go in front of the Council but if it requires the Town Code to be amended then there are procedures to go through.  Lisa said signs are listed in the Town Code so any changes would have to go through procedures.  Frank added there are some issues with the Indiana Code.  The next Plan Commission meeting is August 3, 2006.  Mr. Double requested what ever is done to slow the speeding down in the Meadowlands should be applied to his neighborhood as well.  He thinks the “speed dips” would be a good idea but is against the gate.  He also suggested technological issues such as devices that photograph cars going through stop signs.  Frank stated there has been an unfavorable opinion by the Indiana Attorney General on a privacy standpoint. 

 

Tammy Milah lives in the Meadowlands and is part of the committee organized to slow the speeding.  She clarified this committee is not against Kelli Heights or Paddington Park.  Their sole concern is to slow people down.  She also clarified the petition was not to have their neighborhood closed off and it did not name a specific subdivision but a street intersection.  They were told by the developer the road was temporary.  Ms. Milah has researched the archives of the Town Council and there were numerous complaints about the speeding.  This is not a new problem.  This group is not going away until someone does something to help.  They have made multiple suggestions on ways to slow down the speeding and having the gate installed was far from being the first idea.  She suggested more stop signs installed especially two on Daisy Street.  She clarified the gate installation suggestion was made by the Town Council.  The gate would be inexpensive, installed on a temporary road and emergency vehicles could break through.  The Meadowlands never wanted the road closed completely. 

 

Tim Harris resident on Clover Drive appreciates the turn out this evening.  He explained what they are proposing with a “break away gate”.  This gate will allow any emergency traffic to get through in a moments notice.  No one will burn or die because the proper vehicles could not get through in time.  This gate will stop the average vehicle.  The benefit to this for all three neighborhoods is it will stop the build up of speed from one neighborhood to the next. He feels the Town Council is not setting a precedence for erecting a break away gate in the Meadowlands because it is his understanding a break away gate is being proposed with the new development on Capitol Ave.  Lisa Creech stated the gate will be installed on an access “road” but the “road” is over a quarry.  Frank Nierzwicki explained with ten or more homes there needs to be connectivity but this development will be apartments.  Sandra also explained when the plan was presented for the apartments on Capitol Ave a ten foot access path with a break away gate for emergency vehicles would be put in some day.  Tim Harris reiterated they do not want to become a separate neighborhood they just want to slow the cars down.  The concerns he has heard this evening are not concerns of safety from the other neighborhoods but how much time, gas and inconvenience it will be for them.  

 

Mike Schaefer resident Paddington Park pointed out the speed issue is bad in Kelli Heights, Paddington Park and The Meadowlands.  He doesn’t understand the issue with speed bumps and thinks 20 mph is an unreasonable speed.  He brought up the speed bumps on the east side of Bloomington; those are okay with the snow plows.  Lisa Creech shared if a gate were to be installed it should be on Lakeview Drive because Lakeview Drive is a County road.  Mr. Schaefer does not feel a gate is the solution.  Frank Nierzwicki explained the speed limits in the Town.  There are 20 mph speeds due to the size of the Town.  Lakeview Drive has a higher posted speed because it is a County Road.  

 

Kalynn Brower, resident of 621 Diana Drive for five years, agrees with a lot of what she has heard this evening.   She chose her house so that her small children could play in the yard and ride their bikes on the street.  She would like studies done to see if speed dips would be a solution.  She appreciates what the Street Department does to clear the snow in the winter and tree debris. 

 

Bronwyn Bleakley, resident of 656 Robin Drive reiterated speeding is a problem in her neighborhood.  She moved from Arizona six years ago and speeding is clearly a national problem.  A lot of neighborhoods have speeding problems.  In Tucson, neighborhoods used a collection of the suggestions made tonight to solve the problem.  The technological solution of taking pictures was very effective in Tucson.  Movable speed bumps were also very effective.  She also suggested more stop signs with increased police presence.  The combination of all took out the majority of the speeding. 

 

Karen Sherfick, 806 Meadowlands resident reiterated everyone has come together to discuss the speeding issue.  When the petition was written it was not one neighborhood against another.  More signs will not work (Children at Play or Stop).  They want their voices heard about the speeding.  Lisa Creech asked Frank if he knew how many tickets were issued to teenagers.  Frank did not know.  Lisa suggested partnering with the School District to work with the speeding problems.  Ms. Sherfick suggested a sign for a Special Needs child in the neighborhood.  Signs, speed bumps and other suggestions have all been brought up but the gate was the only thing that would slow people down.  The issue with the gate was not so The Meadowlands would be separate from everyone else. 

 

Christan Royer lives in The Meadowlands and drives 20 mph down her streets.  She is a runner and she runs in The Meadowlands 3-5 miles a day.  She has done her own “testing”.  She has observed people do not slow down in The Meadowlands at all.  Ms. Royer would like the data that has been collected; average speed and directional testing. Frank went over the data that was presented to The Meadowlands residents on June 22nd.   She is not for or against the gate; she does not want to be hit while running.  She runs on the sidewalks and there have been many times she has had to run into a yard or come to a complete stop so she would not get hit. 

 

Someone spoke at the podium (did not state name or sign in) and was thrilled with the speed dips suggestion.  She drew out a plan and explained Clover, Wildflower and Meadowlands Drive were a big “8”.  She suggested closing off portions of the road so that people would have to travel in a big “S” to get through the neighborhood.  Drivers would have to slow down for all the turns, the straight-aways would be closed and the whole neighborhood would have to be driven through in order to get out.  The plan was drawn and explained on the board. 

 

Diane Crider, resident 700 Paddington Park, house is located right where The Meadowlands comes into Paddington Park.  She has seen it all; kids riding on top of cars, screeching cars and trash throwing.  She likes the speed dip suggestions and also blocking off Lakeview Drive.  Everyone speeds and kids will be kids.  The more the issue is forced with the kids the more hateful, resentful and rebellious they will become.  The children in The Meadowlands will become teenagers and speed through Paddington Park.  Teenagers can not be watched 24/7 or controlled.  Ms. Crider said enough taxpayers’ money has been spent on The Meadowlands already with the storm water problems.  If the Town is going to pay for speed bumps or signs for The Meadowlands then the Town should pay for all the neighborhoods not just for one.

 

Greg Houston lives on Clover Drive in The Meadowlands.   He was originally for the gate on the one side but after hearing Lisa’s comment the gate should be put over on Lakeview.  He does not have children but he does have a dog.  His dog wiggled out of the leash and almost got hit by a car going 40 mph.  He likes the suggestion of blocking off Lakeview Drive.  This would only give The Meadowlands one access out.   Mr. Houston suggested making the dirt road off of Clover Drive another access road.  Frank quickly informed Mr. Houston the Town does not own the Overbrook development.  It will not become a Town street until we accept it into the system.  The developer usually works from the outside in and they are working from McNeely to the south.   Mr. Houston is a teacher at the high school and he recognizes a lot of the teenage drivers that are speeding through the neighborhood.  Speed bumps, dips and stop signs are not going to slow these children down.  They don’t care because their parents purchased the cars.  He also mentioned Driver’s Education was not offered.  Mr. Houston went on to say licenses are taken away for different disciplinary problems and he doesn’t know why this could not be instilled through out the whole community. 

 

Karen Bartlett lives on Renee Drive in Kelli Heights.  When she heard about issues The Meadowlands were having she felt Kelli Heights were the bad guys, speeding and bringing in the riff raff.  She spoke with 55 homes in Kelli Heights who do not want a gate.  Renee Drive is equally as straight as any in The Meadowlands.  The stop signs will not work because anyone who is speeding will not care about signs.  The Meadowlands are very fortunate to have sidewalks.  She suggested 4-5 concrete poles in the crucial areas to prevent drivers from entering yards.  The gate suggestion has pitted the neighborhoods against each other.  Everyone is facing the same speeding issues.  She likes the idea of speed bumps.  She referenced the speed bumps on Covenanter in Bloomington. 

 

Lisa Creech announced the Police were present this evening on “special assignment” because there were different communications and firearm threats for this evenings meeting.  She also clarified the drainage problem in The Meadowland; the developer paid for the materials but labor was handled by the Town Street and Utility Departments.  

 

William Parks lives on Wildflower and is against the gate and speed bumps.  He questioned the 20 mph through Town and admitted it is hard to drive 20 mph coming off of Lakeview Drive.   He does not believe all the speeders are teenagers. 

 

Ed Bitner does not technically live in Kelli Heights.   He bought his house 26 years ago because it was on a dead end street of a gated community.  He now has a major thoroughfare going in front of his house.  The “S” suggestion might work.  He is not in favor of the “speed dips”.  He suggests a combination of the “S” turns with the speed “humps” (like on Covenanter) with the concrete pylons on the dangerous corners. 

 

Lisa Creech thanked everyone for coming this evening and announced none of the ideas have been shot down.  She recommended this meeting to give all the surrounding communities the opportunity to be heard.  Lisa asked Sandra to change the July 31st meeting to include budget discussion.  She asked Frank to give all the Council members copies of the demographic studies (tickets issued, street studies and ages).  Lisa asked William Evans to speak with Ron McGlocklin about increased fuel costs, get his thoughts on Reserve Officers doing extra patrol in the neighborhood and bring the information to the July 31st meeting.  Lisa suggested she and Patrick have a meeting with Jim to discuss the different options and costs.  All this information can be discussed at the July 31st meeting.  The next Plan Commission meeting will be August 3rd.  All information can be presented at the August 28th Town Council meeting; costs, what were the findings, a plan on what might work.  She suggested one person from each neighborhood attend the meeting and give their recommendation of where a speed bump might be best or where a new sign should be installed. 

 

A gentleman from the audience suggested making one of the streets one way going out of the Meadowlands cutting the traffic by fifty percent.

 

Adjournment

 

Lisa Creech adjourned the meeting at 9:20 p.m.